Private Parts Unknown: The Tension Between Evolutionary Biology & Modern Motherhood with "We Are Animals" Author Jennifer Case
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Welcome back to Private Parts Unknown A podcast about love and sexuality around the world. I'm m Courtney Kocak. And today privates we are getting primal. That is right. Our guest is Jennifer Case, author of We Are Animals On, the Nature and Politics of Motherhood. Her book takes a long hard look at The Tension, Between, Evolutionary Biology and Modern motherhood. And this interview really stuck with me because Jennifer candidly shares a disagreement that she had with her husband when they became pregnant with their second child. I'm not gonna spoil it for you, but I think it'll be striking for you when you get there as well.
1 (1m 31s):
And I've been thinking a lot about pregnancy and childbirth and parenthood as I've been mulling over my own decision about whether or not to have a kid. And so this was a really thought provoking conversation for me. It made me think about the compromises we make for love and relationships and some societal compromises that we make, which is part of what Jennifer is talking about in her book. So I'm sure this interview is gonna give you a lot to think about too. I hope you enjoy.
5 (2m 3s):
Hi, my name is Jenny Case and I'm the author of We Are Animals On the Nature and Politics of Motherhood.
6 (2m 10s):
Well, I'm excited to chat about this. I am thinking about motherhood though. It's like the more research I do Yeah. The more it seems. Yeah.
5 (2m 23s):
Yeah.
6 (2m 25s):
So I. Guess just give the listeners a little
1 (2m 29s):
Bit of an intro about the premise and the inspiration for your book.
5 (2m 33s):
So my book is called We Are Animals On, the Nature and Politics of Motherhood. And it, I have two kids. So it follows early pregnancy and early motherhood through both of those kids. My first child was an intended pregnancy, very excited about it. And yet prior to having kids, I think I lived mostly in my head, didn't realize how how much We Are Animals. Right. Which is the premise of the book. And I didn't realize how much motherhood would force me to be an, an embodied person in more ways than I was used to. And would change my life in ways that motherhood would cause conflicts between what I wanted from life and my conceptions of feminism.
5 (3m 17s):
And then evolutionary biology and just biological truths. So those sorts of tensions and challenges became very apparent and I started to think a lot about them. And then my second child, it was an unintended pregnancy after I had decided I wanted to be done with one in order to have more work life balance. And that was really challenging for me to have this unintended pregnancy. And my husband didn't agree with abortion, so wouldn't even let us talk about it. So that also caused a lot of tension in our marriage. Right. And then made me think a lot about what it meant to be a woman and to be pregnant without feeling I had AdChoices in the matter at that particular time in my life.
5 (3m 59s):
And then all of the cultural, political, social conflicts just blew up even more. So the book is my attempt to better understand what happened to me at those moments in my life and to better understand those challenges of choice and control when it comes to motherhood and today's age.
6 (4m 17s):
Yeah. The first pregnancy, did you have fears going into that? I know it was planned, but did you know what to expect?
5 (4m 28s):
I definitely still had fears. 'cause you don't know what to expect. Right. And you just know things are going to change, but you don't know what the experience is going to be like physically. So much could happen, right? So many unknowns could happen. So, I think it's I mean. I think everyone is afraid to some degree just not knowing what will happen.
6 (4m 49s):
Yeah. And then there's a scene in the book, you're like, before my second pregnancy that only I'd only had oral surgery or whatever. Yeah. And then, you know, you're kind of being like pressured into this Yes. Delivery situation. So tell us a little bit about that.
5 (5m 6s):
So before I had kids, yeah. The only surgery I had had was my wisdom teeth being extracted, right? So that's, that was it. Aside from routine doctor exams, that was all. And then suddenly, well I had wanted to do an unmedicated birth. So as much as possible I had wanted to have a unmedicated natural childbirth to just let my body be my body. But instead my blood pressure was ticking up. So I showed up at a routine appointment and my midwife said, no, we're inducing you right now. Which meant my goals of an unmedicated birth were destroyed from the start. Right? Because they're putting the me on Pitocin right away. And then saying that if I'm not progressing quick enough, we'll have to do an epidural and potentially a c-section if, if those don't work together though the way way they wanted to.
5 (5m 55s):
So that was challenging for me to, you know, want kind of this embodied experience of birth and just to be really present for birth and to be able to trust my body to do what I wanted it to do or what it could do. And instead from the very beginning say no, we're taking over and we're going to try and control it through these other means instead because of your blood pressure.
6 (6m 17s):
Yeah. So I mean pregnancy and childbirth, that's like one of the most deadly times in a woman's life. And I'm curious, you know, what, what did you all learn in your research about the risks and how some of those can be mitigated and things like that?
5 (6m 39s):
What's really interesting to me as I was researching We, Are Animals is just how much cultural fear there is out there about pregnancy and childbirth. One of the essays in the book is a conversation where I interviewed a doula that I worked with here in Arkansas and then a, a midwife who practices here in Arkansas. And the midwife said something that's really stuck with me. And she said that when we're afraid our, our sphincter valves tighten, right? They clench up. And when you're going through childbirth and you're working to deliver, you don't want speech valves to clench up because you actually need them to soften and open for your, your cervix to open and the baby to actually come up.
5 (7m 23s):
But if women are placed in these situations where there's just a lot of cultural fear around childbirth and you're in a hospital, let's say, where people are monitoring numbers, right? And coming in and coming out, people you don't know always and it's bright, perhaps you're going to feel fear, right? So, so many times in hospital settings, women are in this environment and you know, no one really intends it to happen, but they start to feel anxious and afraid and thus their sphincter valves start to clench up. Right? And then childbirth slows, right? Because that's what's going to happen if the sphincter valves clench up. And then interventions are sometimes needed or used when they might not have been necessary if women were environments where they weren't anxious or afraid or was calming dark.
5 (8m 10s):
Right? Not so many interruptions by other people. So that stayed with me, right? That yes, child I mean, no one can say that childbirth isn't potentially deadly. Right? And even in some of the statistics, I found a lot of deaths from pregnancy and childbirth could be prevented, but not all could be. Right. It, it's a situation where sometimes deaths are going to occur. There's a reason women are afraid because of that. And yet we're also heightening these fears. Right. Which leads to, to problems.
6 (8m 42s):
Yeah. It seems like obviously it was even more deadly before medicine. Yeah. But now, but we had all these kind of, there was this lineage of kind of knowledge or you know, and, and then now it seems like those two things are in conflict, like the medical system and this more ancient way of giving birth. Yeah. And so, yeah, what are your thoughts on that and how we can bring them together?
5 (9m 13s):
I would love to see them brought together. 'cause there's so much that modern medicine gives us. Right. And we wouldn't be where we are without it. And yet modern medicine also sometimes causes the problems we're fighting against. Yeah. And one of the things I found fascinating when I was researching the history of, of obstetrics and the movement from childbirth from the home into hospitals is that maternal mortality rates didn't actually decrease when women started to have their kids in hospitals. Deaths from childbirth only started to decrease once penicillin was discovered. Right. So it was the invention of penicillin more than it was who the practitioner was that started to improve maternal mortality rates.
5 (9m 59s):
And in fact, maternal mortality actually worsened for a little bit because when women first started to have childbirth in hospitals, the doctors didn't know germ theory very well. So they would actually, you know, they'd put their hands in there and they would put bacteria in there and then suddenly we'd have issues with sepsis. So ironically things became worse for a little bit.
6 (10m 25s):
Yeah. And you live in central Arkansas, is that right? Yes. So that is one of the states that's experiencing bans right now, is that right?
5 (10m 36s):
Yes. So abortion is completely banned in Arkansas at the moment.
6 (10m 41s):
People think of, it's just about what we think of as classical abortion, but it's not. Yeah. There's all these other miscarriage situations and things that it affects too.
5 (10m 52s):
Yes, exactly.
6 (10m 53s):
What year was your second pregnancy?
5 (10m 55s):
It was in 2016.
6 (10m 57s):
So you were pre correct this wave of bans, that's like a whole nother thing to add on it now. Yeah. These
5 (11m 6s):
Days, ironically, right. You could have an abortion in Arkansas in 2016 when I was pregnant, there was only one clinic allowed to do abortions. But you could, now you can't.
6 (11m 17s):
So yeah. Tell us about, obviously We, Are Animals and you, you talked about the theme of of nature and motherhood. How are these things connected for you and how do they influence one another in your book?
5 (11m 31s):
Well, what really interested me as I was writing the essays in the book is how much maternal behavior makes sense if you explore it through the lens of evolutionary biology. So if we look at ourselves as animals, then human reproduction and how we handle human reproduction and maternal behavior suddenly makes a whole lot of sense though if we look at human behavior through the context of what we think mothers should do or how mothers should react from a societal lens right now, that's where things don't entirely make sense. So in evolutionary biology, for instance, we know that hunters and gathers and early human societies had a lot of hollow parents.
5 (12m 14s):
So there'd be a mother, right? And then there'd be a father, a biological father. But there were also aunts and uncles and kin and nieces and nephews and all of these other people around who were also helping to raise that infant. So it was never just a couple raising an infant. And so women had a lot of communal help and weren't expected to be the primary caregivers of those children. And in fact, we know from other species that when women don't have a lot of support around them, that's when they start to show maternal distress. Right. And that's where women might not want to follow through with the pregnancy. Right. Or proceed. 'cause they know the support isn't available to them. So when we look at human behavior through that lens, right, suddenly it's like, oh, that makes sense.
5 (12m 58s):
Right? It makes sense why so many mothers are afraid of motherhood right now. Or have fears or qualms or once they become mothers struggle with loneliness or isolation or a lack of support. Right. And become anxious or depressed as a result.
6 (13m 13s):
Yeah. So I grew up in rural Minnesota. Oh,
5 (13m 16s):
Where in Minnesota? I'm from Minnesota as well.
6 (13m 19s):
Jackson? It's in southwest Minnesota, kind of by Worthington. Oh, nice.
5 (13m 23s):
Nice.
6 (13m 24s):
Where are you from?
5 (13m 25s):
I went to high school in Mankato. Oh,
6 (13m 27s):
I was born in Mankato. Yeah. Amazing. But you know, my dad was one of nine and even though some of his siblings went away, there were still some that were close by. My grandparents were nearby. I grew up with a lot of family. And then, you know, I went away to pursue my dreams. And now I live in LA and my family is, you know, hundreds, a thousand plus miles away. And so yeah, that is something that I think makes it a a different situation. And I, I'm curious how you reconcile, you know, your writer as well and have ambitions and how you reconcile the ambition part with the part of you that wants this maybe like older motherhood system.
5 (14m 22s):
Yeah, it's definitely a tension. I am an academic So I teach creative writing at a university. And if you want to have a tenure track position, that means you usually need to move around the country. And so I'm from Minnesota, but I've lived in Nebraska and upstate New York and now I'm in Arkansas. And I've loved career-wise what all those opportunities have given me. But like a lot of people who've moved to different states to pursue a career, it means I'm not living in a place where I have a support system. Right? That's something I had to build myself with both kids. And that does create attention. 'cause you don't have that support in place when you need it as a young parent.
5 (15m 4s):
When your kids are are little like that. And I don't know, I don't know the solution in our society right now because I do value those career opportunities I have and I do value my career and I recognize that in our society moving has given me opportunities I wouldn't have had if I had stayed in Minnesota. And yet there is a, you know, a lack of support and isolation or a lack of a large support network as a result. I think we're trying as a country, right, to find new ways to build support systems that don't perhaps create themselves in the way they have in the past. And yet that's work too.
6 (15m 45s):
Yeah. So what are some of the ways that you tried to create a more tenable situation for yourself as a mother?
5 (15m 54s):
Well, it helps to get to know other parents, right? So connecting with other parents and meeting for play dates at parks, things like that. Connecting with colleagues. I have a great colleague who has been willing to help babysit for last minute or pick up my kids from school, right? If I'm stuck at the auto mechanic and can't get there in time. So, I have slowly built those connections that, that have offered a lot of support.
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6 (16m 56s):
What do you think we can do? I mean it's gonna be a huge problem. There are people like Elon Musk that are worried about the birth rate, even though I think his tactic of how he feels like we should solve it or whatever is like way off. There is like a, a seemingly a whole generation of women that are super late to the game. Yeah. Or are having way fewer children. And, there are some things that have been proposed in this election, like better tax credit, whatever. Yeah. What do you think we could do as a society to make motherhood more attractive to women? Yeah.
5 (17m 34s):
Well, you know, as someone whose background is in environmental writing and who's very climate aware, I'm not particularly concerned about having a lower birth rate for a couple of generations even. I think that might just be
6 (17m 48s):
Okay.
5 (17m 49s):
The natural progression, right? And it's okay if the human population decreases for a little while. That might be our way of evening things out. But the truth is women will have babies if they're living in environments where that's supported. Right. Where they're going to receive support. I think so many women are hesitating right now because we aren't living in a society where as a parent, whether a mother or a father, whatever, we aren't living in a society where you're getting the kind of support you need. The surgeon general just came out a couple weeks ago with a statement about that and concerns about parental mental health because of the isolation and lack of support.
5 (18m 34s):
So if we had better parental leave Right. Or easier access to high quality childcare. Right. Or we lived in work environments that accommodated parents and what parents need to do when their children are young, then it wouldn't feel so scary. Right. Because you'd know you lived in a a, a society that would support you along the way. But those are large societal changes. Right. They
6 (18m 58s):
Don't seem that crazy though.
5 (18m 59s):
They don't. No. Like
6 (19m 0s):
I went to Helsinki, I guess it was like five years ago now, but when I went there, you know, they, they have a baby bundle that they give you in Finland when you give birth. It's like you don't need a crib. Yeah. They'll give it to you. Yeah. And the parental leave is way better. And they just have all these things that are set up where like seems conceivable that you could have a kid even without a partner. Yeah. And you know, it would be okay. Yeah. And so that was my first taste of like, oh we've been, yeah, we've been given like a really raw deal and like, I don't even think people know Exactly.
5 (19m 42s):
I think that's the problem is we think we haven't been given a raw deal, but really in western society how we handle parenting. It's, it's not the way that humans evolve to handle parenting. Right. And that's why there's so much, so many issues with maternal mental health and so many issues with parental isolation.
6 (20m 4s):
So has your husband been a good collaborator in child rearing?
5 (20m 10s):
We have learned a lot. Grown as
6 (20m 13s):
A couple
5 (20m 14s):
As we've had kids, which I think isn't uncommon. When we got married, you know, we talked about having an equitable marriage, right. And we pretty evenly distributed household tasks between the two of us. And then we had our daughter and things just went sideways. And I wasn't prepared for that, for how quickly the tasks of motherhood or the tasks of child rearing, not even motherhood, but child rearing would fall more and more on me than on him. So it took a lot of work. And when we had our second child, we had some very long conversations about how to make sure that the tasks were more evenly shared the second time around.
5 (20m 55s):
And that definitely has improved.
6 (20m 58s):
So aside from like talking about it, which obviously very necessary, but do you have any tips for maybe frustrated mothers or, or people who are like scared of even getting into that dynamic? Because it is, there's like maybe a biological reason why the kid gravitate, but it's like I don't want to get stuck with everything. Yeah,
5 (21m 23s):
Yeah. I mean, one thing we did is I printed out a list of like all of the tasks, all of the things that needed to be done right. And we went through point by point to try and evenly distribute it. That wasn't foolproof. Inevitably the kids come to me when they're hungry. Right? They want snacks from me or they come to me to play or be entertained more than they do him. And he recognizes that too. And I'm not, I don't know what the solution is in terms of how to more evenly distribute that. Also, I breastfed both of my kids, which meant at night when they woke up hungry, when they were still infants, I was the one who fed them.
5 (22m 4s):
Right. So, I was the one who was up more. And I don't know how to make that more evenly distributed either.
6 (22m 11s):
I love the like the list though. 'cause then you can kind of see Yeah. You know, it's like, okay, but what about all these tasks?
5 (22m 20s):
Yes. Can
6 (22m 21s):
You put a way to help relieve some of these? Yes. It's a huge list.
5 (22m 26s):
Or if all of these feeding tasks I'm inevitably going to do because I'm breastfeeding, can you take more of these other ones? Right. It at least gives you a way to, to have that conversation.
6 (22m 37s):
Yeah. I, I'm doing a whole series of these interviews on motherhood because I really am, I'm 40. It's like I need to make a decision and it's, it's raising all these things that I didn't think about for decades. So I know, you can't just like be like, this is what you should do. But do you have any advice based on advice, any of the things that you learned from pregnancy, childbirth, motherhood that you're like, oh, I wish I would've known this?
5 (23m 9s):
Hmm. I I mean I don't regret my experience of motherhood at all. And I've learned so much from it. And even though it was incredibly challenging with my second child because it was unintended and my mental health certainly suffered as a result for a little while. I've learned a lot through it. And he's a phenomenal child. I did not expect it to be so physical though. So even like the recovery period after childbirth was a lot more physical and demanding than I expected. And I did not expect so many illnesses. If you have your kid in daycare, they're going to be sick pretty constantly.
5 (23m 53s):
For the first three years of their life, just cold after cold after cold. And that was exhausting. Right. Because if they have a cold, you are going to get a cold and then everyone's snotty and not sleeping well. Yeah, So, I didn't expect that. And those were a couple tough years to get through just because of the sleep deprivation all around.
6 (24m 16s):
Did you have Ed kind of stuff in your background before pregnancy?
5 (24m 22s):
I did not.
6 (24m 24s):
How was the body stuff for you?
5 (24m 26s):
It did surprise me. How? Well, I'm a pretty small person, so I'm not that tall and I don't weigh all that much either. And I pretty much have had the same body since late high school and So I didn't think that much about it ahead of time, but I actually gained more weight pregnant than is expected in part because I'm smaller I think. I don't know. But that concerned me and I was surprised how concerned I became or how concerned and embarrassed and ashamed I was at the doctor's offices for prenatal appointments when they're like, oh, you ate well this week, or, oh,
6 (25m 9s):
The baby's
5 (25m 10s):
Still growing. And those were never comments I'd gotten before because, you know, I had just been very consistently one weight for decades and yeah. Yeah, it taught me a lot about me probably being more weight conscious or aware of my weight than I had thought I was.
6 (25m 27s):
And then in the aftermath, were you easily able to come to terms with any changes or how was that period for you?
5 (25m 38s):
With my daughter, it was okay. It took I mean. It took seven, eight months after her birth for me to feel physically like myself again with my son. It was harder again because it was an unintended pregnancy. So I hadn't felt like I'd elected to go through it again. I'd felt more like I had had no choice and, and was somewhat being forced to go through it again. And I actually had a condition where your abdominal muscles detach a little bit. It's called, I think diastasis rec probably mispronouncing that a little bit, but where they detach a little bit. Yeah. And I do a lot of yoga and after he was born, there were yoga poses.
5 (26m 22s):
I couldn't do For the longest time because I had lost my core strength as a result. And that was hard. Like it, it took some time for me to enjoy, accept that. Right. And just say, all right, your body is just different now and that's the way it's going to be. And one of my hips will still click a little bit as I walk every now and then because of the way my pelvis changed during pregnancy and childbirth. So the body does change. Right. Which, depending on how attached we are to the physical states of our bodies in particular moments, that can be a challenge.
6 (26m 58s):
I'm so curious about this, this conversation with your husband or like where you couldn't talk about the possibility Yeah. Of abortion or, I don't know. I am imagining myself, I have had an abortion early in my twenties, And. there was a trapped kind of feeling that I had. And I'm just curious like how you navigated that with like where you're the person that's kind of like obligating you to the situation. Is this person that you love so much and it's you partner?
6 (27m 38s):
Like how did you work through that?
5 (27m 40s):
It was complicated and hard and part of the challenge was we both grew up Catholic. Right. And I had separated myself from Catholicism more than he had. So some of it was, you know, just these messages and cultural backgrounds and him, you know, just at that date in his life, not being able to have that conversation with me. But it definitely impacted our marriage for a number of years. It took a long time for us to really work through that together and we have at this point. But it was tough for a handful of years and it required a lot of difficult conversations. He's come a long way since then.
5 (28m 20s):
I can say that he is very pro-choice now in a way that he wasn't Oh wow. In 2016. So he grew a lot and and learned a lot in the experience. But yeah, it's, it's hard on a partnership when that happens. Yeah. Or when you know, when one person wants a child and the other's unsure. That's also hard. But it definitely, it definitely was a difficult moment for us.
6 (28m 46s):
Yes. Well, it's been fascinating reading. I recently learned there's a name for it. I have like a phobia around this pregnancy and childbirth that I am trying to work through in my, as I'm figuring out if I should do this. It's like the motherhood part. It seems like a crazy drug that's like you kind of should, if you have the instinct to do it, maybe allow yourself to go through with it, but it's not easy to get there. Anything else that you wanna leave us with? Maybe surprising things that you learned in your research or anything else you'd like to share about the book before we wrap?
6 (29m 27s):
Well,
5 (29m 27s):
One of the things that fascinated me was about brain size of mammals. Yes. Because it turns out infant brains, so human brains are larger compared to the pelvis for humans than the infant brains of most other mammals. And yet human brains are less developed than the brains of most other mammals, which means childbirth is more difficult for humans. But those infants are less capable of doing much once they're born than other mammals, which just explains a lot. Right.
5 (30m 7s):
That childbirth. It is, it's a difficult experience. Right. It's certainly a process to go through. And then you're also, you have this infant who, unlike a chimpanzee, cannot grab onto you and hang on. So you then have to expend the energy to hold them and carry them around.
6 (30m 24s):
I was recently reading a study too, like the Mother's Brain. Yeah.
5 (30m 29s):
Changes, right.
6 (30m 30s):
And it's decreased in size for like a couple years and maybe never goes back.
5 (30m 36s):
Yeah.
6 (30m 38s):
I was like, that's not a good ad.
5 (30m 40s):
Well one of my concerns, right, as someone who works in academia, you know? Yeah. One of the messages out there is that if you're pregnant, you're less intelligent and you want to believe that's not true and it's not true, but there is a biological truth to it and that your body is using more energy to create that baby and then there's less for other cognitive functioning. Right? Yeah. So that's something to sit with.
6 (31m 9s):
How did you leave the experience of writing the book where you're like, okay, I satisfied the thing, or were you like, it's still hard for me to reconcile all these things that I've been wrestling with over the course of the book. Like did you feel a sense of resolution or at the end were you like, fuck and still, I don't know.
5 (31m 30s):
I did feel a sense of resolution, but one of the things that surprised me is sometimes it takes more time for emotions to catch up. Right? So I had to do more personal processing after I finished the book than the book implies. So some of the essays in that book were teaching me even years after I wrote them. I was teaching myself how to reprocess or think about these situations. And that's one of the things I love about writing is you can end up teaching yourself in those ways. But yeah, I do have a sense of resolution and yet the sense of resolution to not occur the moment I wrote the final word, it took a couple more years.
6 (32m 13s):
Oh, that's so interesting. Good. Well thank you so much for letting me ask all these super personal questions.
5 (32m 21s):
Oh, my pleasure. I always love talking honestly about motherhood and childbirth.
1 (32m 27s):
Thank you so much to Jennifer and thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Private Parts Unknown. Stay tuned right here. I have got another sexy episode coming your way next week. For the latest episodes. Look down and make sure you're following us on your favorite podcast player. Now to stay in touch between episodes, follow me at Courtney Kocak. Last name is K-O-C-A-K on Instagram and Twitter. And follow the show at Private Parts Unknown on Instagram and at private parts on on Twitter. And listen privates, I am shamelessly trying to hit the top 1% on OnlyFans always and forever. So if you are interested in a Playboy style peek behind the podcast, you could subscribe to my OnlyFans account.
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It is OnlyFans dot com slash coco peep show. It is a horny way to help support the show. So if you are interested, join me over at OnlyFans dot com slash coco peep show and of course, subscribe to our newsletter at Private Parts Unknown dot substack dot com. There is even a way you can become a supporter over there. The link is in the episode description for that and subscribe to the Private Parts Unknown YouTube channel, For the video version of a bunch of episodes. Head on over to YouTube dot com slash Private, Parts Unknown and smash that subscribe button. That is YouTube dot com slash Private Parts Unknown. And check out my other podcast for more of my audio creations.
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I have the leaders about book writing and publishing and podcast bestie, which is a best friend to podcasters trying to grow and monetize their shows. If you are a writer and you not only wanna generate a ton of new material, but get it published, like some of the essays that I have read on the podcast, I have got the writing intensive of Your Dreams going down in January. I am bringing back Pitch Party For, the fourth cohort in January. It's called the New Year's Newsletter and Pitch Party Extravaganza. I am currently leading cohort three this month and we are having so much fun.
1 (34m 35s):
It is such a fantastic experience. So if you are interested, head on over to my website, which is Courtney Kocak dot com slash teaching. Again, Courtney Kocak, last name KO cak dot com slash teaching. And you can use Code Private for a hundred dollars off. Shout out to Amy Rausch For the Bombass theme music. For more info about Amy, enter her music, check out amy rausch dot com. That is amy R-A-A-S-C-H dot com. This episode was mixed by my beloved audio guy, Michael Castaneda of Plastic Audio. And after enjoying this content, could we ask you for a quick favor? Just go to rate this podcast dot com slash private and give us a five star rating and review.
1 (35m 21s):
I would love a new review to read on the show. I would happily read any glowing review. So I, can't wait to get the next one. Oh, And, there is one more way you can help support the show. We are now on the Fountain app, so if you are listing on Fountain or another V for V platform and you get value from this show, you can support us by sending a boostgram. You can even send a comment along with your Boost and I have to say, those are my favorite messages to get because they come with a little bit of Bitcoin. Thank you so much for sticking with me until the end. Until next time, stay curious and keep exploring. Love you privates.
8 (36m 10s):
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